Episode # 1 Transcript Whether you're a millennial leader finally, we're in the age of job hopping because why commit to anything longer than a Netflix binge session? So we would take a step back, right? These stereotypes don't quite align with being a capable Jessica Grossman (10:17.998) steady, entrusted leader. So what happens when us, these young, entitled trophy kids aren't young anymore? Haven't received a trophy since we won our fantasy football league around six years ago, which we stopped trying recently because we're all too tired and exhausted from the kids that we're raising using gentle parenting techniques where we tell ourselves healthy, not happy as we struggle to support our kids during wild tantrums. Now that we've wrapped our heads around the stereotypes we're working with, what are the current actual researched millennial traits? So I'm going to just list through these and fly through some of these and then we'll circle back to the ones that I'm the most interested in. So the first one is entitlement, but like in parentheses, for some. So then this is really a result of an apparent trend within a generation, meaning that Apparently the older millennials are more narcissistic than the younger millennials. The second trait are that we're digital natives. The third is that we're highly educated. We're actually the most educated cohort in American history and consequentially this means that millennials have actually started their careers later, which has delayed major life milestones. We're also high learners, right? And this is kind of counter to, I think, what we're told. because despite these delays, we're still financially outperforming our predecessors with households headed by millennials earning more than those of previous generations. And this actually holds true for black and Hispanic Americans and especially women. So women are really making up some of this gap. Another trait is that we are delaying committed relationships. We're less religious. We're liberal Democrats and libertarians. So really kind of, on both sides of that political spectrum. We as adults were actually politically participatory. So a lot of people saw us as an apathetic generation, but actually as adults were very politically participative. We're racially conscious. We were happy as teens, but now we're depressed as adults. Just really interesting. So remember these traits are from Jean Twain's book, Generations. So if you're really interested, go back and read it. Jessica Grossman (12:37.486) So the question I always asked is, I was called too millennial. So if I look at these traits, were they right? Am I too millennial? And I will say, I scored a bit of a 10 on it. There's some nuances to these, but I would say I'm kind of a 10 on 10 on these. So I guess if the glove fits. So let's unpack a couple of these traits and understand them a bit deeper. So I... Dub this section, the impact of millennials childhood on their self -esteem and adulting. And we're going to just start with childhood. Now millennials were raised in a pretty unique era as boomer parents opted for a more hands -on approach to parenting. And our childhoods really became a whirlwind of constant supervision and structured activities, soccer practice, theater rehearsals, the whole shebang. And I mean, I can tell I'm a millennial for going to play the game. Tell me you're a millennial without telling me you're a millennial. Let's just say that my family started jokingly calling soccer our religion due to the fact that it practically took up our entire Sundays and to the very dismay of my mother, most of my life until adulthood. So a lot of this was because parents were really determined to provide their kids with a different experience from their own. They felt as though. They were extremely separated from their parents. Maybe the parents were rigid or cold. And so they wanted to have a warmer relationship with their children. And as a result, it became the age of quote, parenting. Before this age, parenting was not a verb. It was just like parents. Like that was it. There was no ing. So a very impactful movement towards really thinking about parenting in a more intentional way. This symbolizes, like this movement from parents to parenting symbolizes a culture of high expectations, social competition, and extreme cops. And I can even feel those things in my body as someone who's growing up, those three things. But again, also according to Twang, it really wasn't our parents' fault. Like we can't blame our parents for this one. It was also society. Society began emphasizing concepts like trying to boost self-esteem. Jessica Grossman (14:56.974) and schools alike rolled out programs aimed at fostering positive self-image. It was a beautiful well-intentioned gesture from society and from our schools. And they really thought in their head, they're like, what could go wrong with showering your children with praise, telling them they were special, giving them trophies for showing up. Look, look how happy this made our kids, right? They didn't, there was no foresight in how might this impact these young kids as adults. Here's the catch. with parents trying to lift their kids both in spirit and social status without the need for actual achievement. It's kinda like grade inflation becomes the norm, right? If we could get our kids to believe they were a students, hopefully at some point as an adult, they become a students. But let's take a closer look at the actual implications of that. kind of mindset. As research by Twang and others suggest, this approach actually had unintended consequences. It makes kids work less hard while actually expecting more. It inadvertently fed into a culture of narcissism characterized by an overinflated ego. And additionally, this type of feedback leads itself to a more fixed mindset, which is the belief that abilities and intelligence are innate and unchangeable. I don't know if you all know this, but there's a groundbreaking book, That was published in 2006. It's conducted by Carol Dweck and she sheds light on a phenomenon where of this thing called fixed mindset versus growth mindset and a fixed mindset as she found leads to individuals avoiding challenges, giving up easily in the face of setbacks. Well, on the contrary, a growth mindset, which is the belief that your abilities can be developed through dedication and effort actually is the thing that fosters learning and resilience and ultimately achievement. So. It's not a surprise when we think about these two mindsets, how empty praise and focusing on kids being special without the actual focus on the achievement itself might encourage more of a fixed mindset in kids than a growth mindset. Additionally, we've also come to learn something else in today's research, which is it's actually not self-esteem that's important, but rather self-efficacy, which is a term coined by Albert Bandura that Jessica Grossman (17:18.67) truly actually fosters resilience. So if you wanna enable resilience, you foster self-efficacy. And self-efficacy is the belief that we can accomplish a task. What are the things that actually build self-efficacy? The first is recognizing someone's effort, right? This reminds me a lot of that growth mindset principle. We build self-efficacy by praising people for their effort, recognizing the effort. The second is actually, completing them. And then the last is that social support along the way. So you can see building self-efficacy is the actual instrument to building resilience, stands in stark contrast to the empty praise that we get as young kids. So how did this impact us as adults? Remember those high expectations I mentioned before? Well, let's just say our adult lives did not live up to them. Oh, the roots of wakenings of adulthood. Thinking about this from a professional standpoint, millennials entered college and the workforce with rather high levels of self -esteem that some might describe as downright narcissism, which surprised and most likely irked and annoyed most of their bosses and people that managed them. According to Twang in her book Generations, quote, by the early 2010s, seven out of 10, seven out of 10. Millennials believed they would be in the top 20 % performance in their jobs. Think about that. And write, quote, a mathematical impossibility, but a psychological reality for a generation raised to think highly of themselves. End quote. Right, this shows that inflated expectation. And when that inflated expectation entered the workforce in 2008 and was hit with a recession, pop goes your optimistic bubble. Now, this first generation that's having to deal with the clickbait of media presence. Millennials now adopted a narrative that both talked about their economic struggles of the recession coming out of college into a poor economic environment alongside a high sense of entitlement in the workforce, which is, let's be honest, that's quite a dynamic story. Now moving to how this impacted them from a personal standpoint, being an adult, I think was just, Jessica Grossman (19:42.222) less appealing to this generation. I mean, I think about my own experience, I'm way more comfortable writing and recording this podcast than loading and unloading the dishwasher, which I'm not allowed to do in my house because I don't do it very well. Right. I mean, even closing the food bag so that the food doesn't get stale, that's a lot of work. So I think this shows what was born from this was another ing word. I think the ing's are all coming out called adulting. Remember, our parents totally coddled us, never making us do chores because your job is to be a soccer star and to get good straight A's and so you don't have time to do any housework because you're too important in the family. You have too much to do all the time. It's a lot of work. If you're working out, if you're doing homework, wait, okay, now I'm just rambling about my son. Anyways, this harsh reality check upon entering adulthood introduced us, to the wonderful world of adulting. I have two kids and let me tell you, adulting is really hard for me. In fact, most days I wake up and I think to myself, I prefer to not be an adult today. And through, you know, reflecting on my own distaste for mundane tasks, adulting really shows the struggles millennials encounter in navigating annoying adult responsibilities, right? It highlights this mismatch between our perceptions of ourselves and the actual demands of the real world. which has been exacerbated by social pressures, economic challenges, and of course, social media. This is a real winner for millennials here. Which brings us to another millennial mental health paradox. While millennials were notably happy as teenagers, rates of depression has surged as millennials have transitioned into adulthood. I mean, I was definitely not a happy teen, but I'm glad statistically other people were. I mean, maybe that's the key that set me up for adulthood is just being a very discontent teenage. But to be clear, like adulting is not the only thing that causes millennial depression, right? It's a very small part of this. I think a bigger major aspect of the worsening mental state for millennials is more of the politicalization of daily life alongside this influence of social media. And this, what the, how this has done is it's intensified our triggers. Jessica Grossman (22:02.894) In the workplace, I'm also seeing this play out in a really interesting way. I'm seeing it in this idea of this us versus them dynamic, which has become a staple in my consulting reports. And this is not just talking about political parties. That's not the us versus them. That's always coming through in the workplace. It's also these generational divides, which you can see are really, are really big. We have different ways of communicating and ways of. working. I'm also seeing it show up in location, whether that's even in our location in the US or across the country with a more global approach to work. And what I'm seeing is this is making collaboration and culture building really challenging, really tricky. Additionally, right, going back to some of the other traits that I pointed out, the decline in traditional sources of social support. So one of the biggest contributors to resilience is social support. So things like marriage, religious affiliation, so are causing, I think, a decrease in mental health and wellbeing because again, social support, really importance to wellbeing, spirituality, really high indicator of wellbeing. I couldn't sign off this podcast without deep diving into one of the bigger millennial traits, the fact that we're digital natives. And we're dubbed this because we came of age during the internet revolution, right? We remember what it's like kind of before. the internet would dial up and really slow login and now we're very effective. We effortlessly navigate the digital landscape and prefer really the tap tap of a keyboard over the ring ring of a telephone. I know I truly panic at the sight of a phone call from basically well anyone, so don't call me. And this mastery of social media from Instagram to Twitter, I mean, definitely not me, but maybe others. We've used this to really connect with friends, to launch businesses, and even spark social movements. I mean, for me, my big social movements is trying to get 10 mothers to get together for happy hour before we pick up our kids. I mean, there's no way I can do that by calling people. But another thing this has done is that it's really blurred the lines between work and our personal life, right? We're just like, we're always on. It's so easy to answer an email. Jessica Grossman (24:22.734) the communication lines of when do we send a text versus Slack is really challenging. So no wonder as a generation, we crave the idea of work -life balance because it's really hard to get it. And the fact that we also crave the flexibility, you have a job that allows us to do stuff on our own terms because you're just always on, it's really hard to get off. And this is not a good look for wellbeing that requires reset, rest, and bound. According to Nathan Bennett in his academic article, readying millennials for the C -suite, a key to future organizational performance. We're going to get real for a moment. Although millennials are highly socially networked, we're not, apparently we're not socially savvy. I mean, I thought I was, but now I'm starting to question that. And one thing that it's very hard for people to learn from Google apparently is soft skills. Like AI is great for teaching us a lot of things, but apparently not having a conversation. The article actually suggests that quote, they are great at using their phones, but not great at using their voice. End quote. All right. We feel more comfortable DMing and sending a text, not having actual conversations. And I think this is shown through a world of ghosting and quiet quitting as being real things. So how are we navigating then the things that are critical for us as leaders? Things like. having hard conversations, giving feedback, setting clear boundaries and expectations. Those are critical as leadership skills. So how are we doing with those? I'm gonna say anecdotally, anecdotally from my own experience, not very well at all. This is something I hear time and time again from organizations is that their leaders have a really hard time having necessary and critical conversations. And this is even especially true. with rising Gen Zers who actually need a bit more clarity in how to do work. They have less modeling, they need more structure, they need more expectation set. And us as millennials are not very good at apparently using our voice for this type of conversation. Of course, we're good at using our voice to get our opinions heard, but not actually having conversation. But we'll save that one for another podcast. So to close up this first episode, in 2020, Jessica Grossman (26:40.11) an academic literature review by Galdums and Gihan. I probably totally didn't say their name right, but they explained that as of 2019, 50 million workers in the US were millennials, the largest generational workforce. And millennials account for 3 million more Gen Xers, just so you all understand the scale. So it's time for a reality check. We millennials have stepped into our prime years of adulthood. So it's... that we get a reassessment because we are not the fresh -faced rookies demanding a seat at the table anymore. Nope, we're the ones in the corner office grumbling about the ways of working of the newest crop of Gen Z employees. But hold on tight because the workplace is in for a wild ride. The slow life strategy has made boomers stay in leadership positions longer, right? It's kept that transition prolonged. but I think change is more on the horizon than we think because as Gen Z enters this workforce, millennials hit their 40s and Gen Xers inch closer to their 50s. These dynamics are rapidly changing. And guess who's stepping into those leadership roles? You guessed it, Gen Xers and us millennials. Twang actually suggests that Boomers are set to retire completely by 2030. So those reigns are being passed to me. In that article around the C -suite, they ask, quote, are millennials ready to lead? The answer I would say no, but to be fair, nobody is. It's like parenting. Nobody is prepared to parent until they become one. The question really is, what are we doing to teach and support our leaders in today's world? End quote. So watch out world. Two Millennials Movement is here and ready to prepare you to be best leader you can be. And that's a wrap for today's episode of To Millennial. If you found yourself nodding along, you know the drill. Smash that subscribe button wherever you're tuning in. And if you want a daily dose of leadership wisdom with a sidekick of quirky parent jokes, catch me on Instagram at Coach Jessy Grossman. But hey, if you're serious about leveling up yourself, your team, head over to zlncoaching .com. Jessica Grossman (29:02.638) where we have great tools, resources, and case studies that will help you unlock your potential and enhance your team's resilience and performance. Because here's the truth, when we don't invest time in building our own leadership skills and the skills of those around us, problems fester. We feel disconnected and it's just so hard to get work done. So if you need an executive coach, a sounding board, an offsite facilitator, a team consultant, get in touch. Thanks for hanging out with me on Two Millennial. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold, and keep growing. to our inogra -folk, inogra -cal, inogra -cal, oh my gosh, I can't even start the podcast off right, the inogra, inaugural, inaugural, welcome, I'm not gonna use that word, yeah, definitely not gonna use that word
Episode #2 Full Transcript Okay, so all of these critics of the millennial generation are calling us these like self -centered narcissistic kids and like we are, we are. Jessica Grossman (00:14.35) Hey, Fam, it's your go -to leadership team coach and host, Jessy here, and I'm ready to shake things up. If you're also tired of outdated forms of authority and ready to rebel against the mediocrity of leadership we see today, you might have just found your spot. So join me in unleashing this next generation of leaders by embracing being just a bit too millennial. Let's redefine this thing together. Jessica Grossman (00:47.886) Hello, hello, hello everyone. We have a fantastic interview that we're going to get to today. But before we get there, hold on. I'm going to talk a little bit about some of the concepts and ideas ahead of time so that you can really absorb and understand all the amazing things that our current guest today goes into. So. Today we're going to talk about the quest for high quality motivation, which is called self determination theory or SDT. I had to be very careful to not say STD. It's really hard for me, but this concept was created by Desi and Ryan in the 1980s. It is not a trendy concept. It's actually been empirically validated by a hundred studies over the last 40 years. And What's really crucial about self -determination theory is that it moves us from this idea that organizational levers are the architect of our motivation and really makes us think inwardly about what is the person's internal experience that's happening and how is that then motivating. So you're probably like, Jessy, just tell me the drivers of STD. Self -determination theory, I almost did it again. Self -determination theory, just tell me what they are, give me the answer. But before I do, I wanna just let everyone know that when it comes to motivation, there is no silver bullet. People's behavior is complex, it's intricate. And so motivation is not linear. But let's talk about the three main drivers or the embedded laws of self -determination theory. The first one is autonomy. When I'm talking about autonomy, I'm not talking about freedom or independence because those are like, hey, don't tell me what to do. I can do whatever that whatever, you know, if I want. And when it comes to organizations, we are not talking about people can just do whatever they want. That is not what we mean when we say autonomy. But autonomy means and feels as though you are the author of your work, your space that you can take ownership of the work. So it's not that. Jessica Grossman (03:03.439) You can still have a mandated task or a prescribed task, but it's whether or not I deem that task as valuable that will allow me to think whether or not I have ownership of it or I am the author of it. So a lot of it is also, you know, how you get work done can also help with autonomy. So that's number one. Number two is relatedness. This is all about belonging, feeling respected, feeling valued as a person. This is core psychological need to. all of us and it's a driver for motivation. The third is competence or mastery. Not only do we want to feel like we relate to people, do we want to feel like we have ownership of our lives, but we want to feel like we're good at things, that we have competence, that we can master things. So this is not just, you know, completing your task and doing it well. There's also a growth element to mastering competence in feeling as though we're growing, progressing, and we're learning. So those are the three pillars of self -determination theory. And this is the crucial part. This is the kicker. This is the exciting part. These are three psychological needs. So though they are uplifting our wellbeing, but at the same time, they've been researched, they've been studied to enhance organizational success. And I'm talking about financial success, retention, performance, all the things we say we want. SD self -determination theory, almost did it again, helps us motivate our employees, motivate ourselves to achieve success, performance, well -being. We don't have to sacrifice well -being. We don't have to sacrifice performance. We can actually have it all using these embedded blocks. You might be wondering, where does compensation fit into this picture? It certainly is a driver for me. Well, compensation is critical and I believe people should be paid fairly and we should never use the idea of self -determination theory as a reason to underpay people. We should never use those levers as a means so that we don't have to pay them fairly. I truly believe that. But let's go back to the research and read. The research suggests something pretty crucial about this, that when compensation becomes the primary tool for motivation, it brings about exactly the detriment that... Jessica Grossman (05:27.822) SDT predicts. So when the most salient motivational factors for work is the amount of compensation one receives, the motivational quality tends to be lower, along with loyalty, performance, well -being in the workplace. So I just want that to sink in for a moment. Money is essential, but it can't be the sole driving force behind why we go to work. But, and there's always a but, Compensation isn't inherently bad. In fact, it can contribute significantly to the motivational quality, but it's all about how it's done. It's really more about signaling that mastery or that efficacy, acknowledging that the job has been well. In this two -part episode, we will embark on a journey to unravel some of these complexities of leadership. And I'm very excited because we have an expert in the house to do this. Eve Turow -Paul is here to help us. She's a leading expert in millennial and Gen Z global food culture and the founder and executive director for Food for Climate League. Her latest book was titled Hungry, Avocado Toast, Instagram, Influencers, and our search for connection and meaning. She's been recognized for her insights into this changing landscape. where she views food culture as a key lever for improving mental, physical, and environmental health around the world. I'm excited to introduce my first guest on this show today, Eve Turow -Paul. She is an author, climate activist, thought leader, speaker, the executive director of Food for Climate League, mother of two amazing kids, and of course, the most important part of her life, she is my best friend. Welcome to Too Millennial. Thanks for having me, Jessy. So for those who - Jessica Grossman (07:27.79) aren't aware of all the amazing work that you've done, who you are, just tell us a little bit about yourself. Eve Turow-Paul Sure. So I have written two books on the why behind foodie culture. The first being very US specific, the second from a more of a global perspective and really honing in on the emotional underpinnings that drive all of human behavior, but looking at it specifically through a lens of food culture and dissecting the top food trends. And then in 2019, I became a mom. I had been using all of my research on human behavior and food culture to advise large food companies, hospitality groups, farming groups, on really what millennials want. And in bringing new life into this world, I asked myself a question of really what is my responsibility at that moment in time. And I decided that if I was going to justify bringing a new life into the world, that I had to be working on the climate crisis. And so in 2019, I founded Food for Climate League with funding from the Food at Google program. And we work specifically on changing the common narrative, the way people think, the stories we tell ourselves about a sustainable food choice. That could be plant -based, plant -forward, up -cycled, regenerative. There's all sorts of ways of eating in a climate -friendly way. But all too often, those food choices are framed in the negative. It's about what we're not eating. Uh, it's about what's not on the menu. It's about giving something up for the common good. The messaging is also very often targeting kind of white, wealthy Western audiences. And those are not the only people who are interested in engaging in climate smart food culture. Um, and so we work to change the way that people think and behave when it comes to climate smart food choices. And now that's, I'd say 99 % of my life is being the executive director of this organization and taking it from. kind of zero to I don't know what stage we're at right now. Jessica Grossman I want to jump in to your first book because looking back at it was pretty hilarious. I also got anxiety just reading it. But you published this in 2015. So we're actually coming up to your 10 year anniversary of that first book. I wanted to read you back. Oh yeah, I want to read you back a portion of it. Quote, we're fucked. Jessica Grossman (09:52.782) Because this generation actually is as narcissistic and self -involved as all the critics we claim we are. There, I said it. After three years of research, my secret fear had been confirmed. While I'd spent a great deal of time attempting to psychologically diagnose Jen Yum, pinpointing the numerous anxiety -provoking elements we face and how we react to them, what I'd really found was... We spend a lot of energy on us. Maybe we are just a self -centered, hopeless, glutinous kid. Looking back at this writing, what is surprising you about the last 10 years and about the millennial generation? Eve Turow-Paul Yeah, I mean, I think that the point that I was actually making in that section was that we are incredibly focused on ourselves because the world demands that of us. Because you are forced to brand yourself. and project a certain version of yourself all the time. And that was also in 2015, it was still somewhat the infancy of social media, where you had to be one person on LinkedIn and a different person on Facebook and a different person on Instagram. And I can't remember if Snapchat was even out yet at that point. But the... The conclusion was really that, okay, so all of these naysayers and critics of the millennial generation are calling us these like self -centered narcissistic kids. And like, we are, we are. And I think that that's still true. We live in a world where we do need to be self -centered. And I think that ultimately that might be our demise. Jessica Grossman If there's something recently I've learned is how... self branding is so critical for all those listening. Follow me on Instagram. Please @coachJessyGrossman. Yes, exactly. Never would I have thought I would have had to brand myself on LinkedIn and Instagram and here I am doing it. So jumping to your next book, Hungry, I think I enjoyed this one maybe a little bit more. I wasn't so anxious reading it. But I found it fascinating because you use so many well -being concepts that are Jessica Grossman (12:08.654) that I also use in my work, but you apply them in such a different way with a different lens, trying to understand food habits and behaviors. Whereas I obviously apply them with a focus on the employee experience. But I've actually always been curious if you took, you know, what you wrote in your book, Hungry, how might you apply those three pillars in Hungary to some of the leadership behaviors you've seen yourself and you're seeing in those trends today? Yeah. Eve Turow-Paul Well, so first, I guess I'll back up a little bit actually, because I want to draw a kind of a line between the first book and the second one. So the first book was born out of my own curiosity about my own behavior. And I graduated from college in 2009, I moved to New York City, I was broke. But I was finding that what little discretionary time and income I had, I was spending on food and food media. And I was seeing that other people around me were doing the same thing. And A Taste of Generation Yum, my first book really, it was my master's thesis. I didn't think anybody was going to read this, but I just was personally fascinated by it. And once I started to dig into the why behind my own behavior, but also kind of this rising foodie culture, I saw that people are using food as a coping mechanism for rising rates of stress and depression and loneliness and anxiety. And then after that book came out, it got a little bit of media coverage and I was hired by a couple of companies to do some talks and book talks. And it was only through that process of actually presenting the research to others and receiving feedback that I made this connection that what I was really talking about was Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. And that served as the inspiration for Hungry. And so in preparation for the next book, I got an agent and a publisher, which is really great to have support system around me. But it also gave me the time and the space to think more about how our food behaviors, our reflections of unmet core human needs, that we all have these core needs and what, you know, whatever we're choosing to spend our extra time and money on, it's probably a reflection of us trying to fulfill a need that's otherwise going unmet. And it's really easy to poke fun at it, but I find it more interesting to try and understand, you know, kind of the emotions that underlie it. And so I took that and did a ton of. Eve Turow-Paul (14:33.134) research on various philosophies of well -being. So I went beyond Maslow and looked at philosophies in psychology, neurobiology, religion, layered them all on top of each other. And you see that there really are these three pillars of a desire for control and safety, a desire for community and belonging, and a desire for purpose and meaning in life. And I use that as the foundation to then analyze. food culture and lifestyle culture, you know, other related behaviors. So that is foundational to me. I now view kind of everything through those three pillars. What's interesting though, is I read this question, you sent me this question ahead of time and I thought, oh my God, I've never thought about it that way. In terms of leadership. You're like, that's what I'm doing with my organization. And I think that on a certain level, I have considered it. So the, the The work that Food for Climate League does now, we do use those three pillars. We most specifically though, we leverage self -determination theory in a lot of our work. So we're developing narrative that speak to people's desire for empowerment, mastery and connectedness, which ladders back to those three pillars very nicely. There's like slight nuances there, but, and we do within our own leadership work, we are starting to think about how to cultivate self -determination within our own organization. That said, your own email made me think like, God, you really need to be doing this in a more strategic and targeted way. I can tell you that - That's what I'm here for. Yeah. Really hard as a startup. So a year ago, I had one employee. Now, There's seven employees. I'd say most of the time I've been focused on the research. What is it tactically that we are doing? What are we aiming to achieve in order to impact the food system? Over the last year, now that I have more people involved, it's not just what is the work that we're doing? Because that part, we're figuring that part out. I feel pretty good about that. Then it's how do you actually cultivate a team that can execute this work well? And how do you do that in a virtual setting? Jessica Grossman (16:52.91) How do you take a bunch of strangers living all over the world in different time zones who have a shared passion and shared interests, but how do you make them feel empowered with the skills that they need in order to do their job well? How do you make them feel connected to one another? And we have a number of initiatives within our own organization to help that come to life, but it's still a work in progress. What are some of the ways in which you've taken inspiration from your book and applied initiatives to Food for Climate? There's a number of different things that we're putting into place. So one are just like standard operating procedures of just like, this is how we work at Food for Climate League. And you know, if you're, this is how we do things. Basic instructions. We're getting really clear on our research process. We're also working on knowledge management systems. This is something that I would also love to chat with you about maybe on this podcast or off the podcast, but we're really realizing, hey, like now that we're many years into this organization. If someone joins, there's all of this information that they need to learn. There's also multiple teams now that are working and they need to be able to exchange information with one another. But it does get to this idea of empowerment and mastery, which is how do you help people feel like they have the skills that they need and are constantly improving upon those skills? And so knowledge management is one of those ways of learning from one another, providing input to other teams, receiving input from their colleagues who happily they respect. appreciate the opinions of. So knowledge management is one thing. For the first time ever, we've carved out professional development budget for each person. So we're hoping to get it to 500 per person for per year to spend on professional development. Then there's the more mental health side of things. What we have found. Well, first of all, it's hard to exist today. It just is. I mean, and sitting on a computer, And dealing with the inundation of content is extremely hard. It is going against a lot of kind of the core things that we as human beings evolved to live amongst. And on top of that, my staff is coming into a job that is about the climate crisis. This is inherently emotionally triggering. It's difficult to think about. And so we've developed a program called Sustainable Self that one of our amazing project managers, Ting Ting, runs now and has taken ownership of. Jessica Grossman (19:20.654) And every two weeks on Fridays, she sets out an agenda for people. And sometimes it's some form of movement. Sometimes it's a meditation, sometimes it's journaling, sometimes it's an art project. It's a way to keep people accountable, to remind people to be getting outside, doing something physical, doing something tangible, connecting with their bodies. And it's a way for us to encourage self care. And... I think one of my biggest challenges as a leader in this space for my own organization is that we, to be frank, we don't have the funding that we need to hire as many people as we need. And so everybody's working probably a job and a quarter. And how do you really maintain wellbeing when everyone is, has too much on their plate? And so. For the time being, we're trying to build in these other things where it's like, okay, we want you to feel empowered. We want you to feel skilled. We want you to feel like you're growing. We do want you to carve out some time for self care. But the biggest challenge for me right now is just how do you really help people feel well when we're in kind of this like odd growth stage as an organization? So I have some fundraising goals for this year. If I can meet them, it's basically all gonna go to operations and HR. because we need to have a healthy team in order to do the impact work. Because otherwise everyone's going to burn out and the impact work is not going to happen. Jessica Grossman I do want to give a shout out to let people know this is why when you give money, you give unrestricted money. Because the people haven't operated like not for profits have to operate. It doesn't just all go to the mission. We have to be able to support those doing the work in a healthy way. So shout out. Eve Turow-Paul Well, but that does. Yes, and that does go to the mission. And I think that that is too why it's like, this is why you have to be investing in people, the people who are doing the work because the mission driven programming is not going to happen or it's not going to happen as effectively if you have staff that are understaffed and be overworked. And it's by like cultivating this positive workplace environment that you ultimately are going to make the biggest impact possible. So. Jessica Grossman (21:40.782) This is a challenge I run into with every client I have, which is they have too much to do and not enough time to do it and they're burned out, they're overworked. And as a coach, it's heartbreaking because we're only as well as our environment and our context. And the idea is that, like you just said, there's a lot to do. The work you're doing is extremely important. And... No one has, I think, the resources that they need to create a thriving organization. So what do you do when you have too much to do and not enough people and you're asking them to work too many hours? But then you're also saying, but we need to be well and we need to be sustainable. It's very hard then to take time off to do a meditation because at the end of the day, the work still needs to get done. Eve Turow-Paul So there's a few things that we are adopting within our own organization to cope with this. And so number one is also making it clear, we're really not asking people to work more than 40 hours a week. And there, I mean, there are some situations where sure, you're going to have a specific deadline that maybe you're going to have to work some extra hours for, but there is no judgment or shame in our organization for saying, I'm going to end. So for me, example, I end my workday at 430 because I want to spend time with my kids. And that's really important to me. I make up those hours for myself if I need to on the weekends during the night. And that's how I manage my own sustainable wellbeing. So we make it clear that we want people to work within kind of the schedule that works for them. But we also are starting to build in longer timelines into our projects so that our sponsors understand that maybe it'll just take us a week or two longer because we don't have the extra person. And so. The project might take one or two weeks longer. Um, and so we're trying to build in that kind of buffer to allow for, uh, just a more sustainable work environment. And, and again, it is emphasizing to people, it's okay if you need to take some time off for X, Y, and Z reason, because ultimately if you are not well, then the impact work is not going to be as impactful. I need to have a, a healthy. Eve Turow-Paul (23:59.886) a well functioning team in order to meet the mission. I feel like if we are stepping into leadership positions the way you're thinking about these, then we are in very good hands because when I coach people and this is the case, I'm truly confused because like you said, one to two weeks longer, what is so urgent in this life that we're going to sacrifice someone's life? well -being and mental health. And we're not just talking about people here who are tired. We're talking about people here who have truly mental health issues due to the workload that are putting on them. We did do a team training during our team retreat. It was a Jedi training, justice, equity, diversity and inclusion. It was something like the, you know, 12 or 20 signs of, I think it was like white supremacy or white colonialism in the workplace was the way that she framed it. And it was interesting because she put up all of these different characteristics around the room and then people went over with stickers to put stickers on the ones that they felt reflected the environment of food refinery. So the two that rose to the top were urgency and perfectionism, which don't go well together. Most of the people who come into my coaching. Jessica Grossman That is what we're dealing with. We realized that the sense of urgency, we actually did this analysis of, well, where does the sense of urgency start? And for me, the sense of urgency starts when someone says, there's a grant proposal due in a week and we need you to come up with a concept in a week. And when there's that sense of urgency, I come up with a proposal that is not the best proposal that it could be because I didn't have the time to think through it with my team. Eve Turow-Paul And where the sense of urgency can be managed, I found is actually coming down to me as the executive director, in actually pushing back against some of those deadlines that are being imposed on me that are making me anxious to say, actually, our team needs more time to really thoughtfully think through this proposal, this service proposal to you, this project proposal. It also comes down to how many weeks are we actually building into the estimate for the project thinking about, okay, we're going to need Eve Turow-Paul (26:21.134) a few weeks to actually find the right team members and onboard them and get everybody set up. And so, you know, and then the other part of it is when someone is in a moment of anxiety, reminding them like, this is not the end of the world. If you need to push the deadline back by a week, like the world will not collapse. And there's a fine line between this because you want people to get the work done efficiently and you want them to take their job seriously. But you don't want them to torture themselves over. and deadlines that they set for themselves. I agree. Jessica Grossman You know, it is interesting to me a lot of the urgency and perfectionism that I see in my coaching is it's self -imposed. And I'm always curious. I'm like, well, who said that? People forget that there's a middle ground between perfectionism and urgency and reliability and laziness. And there's a true belief that if I take care of myself, there's the self -judgment. that, well, I'm lazy. And it's usually based on a person on their team, who they see as lazy and they are judgmental. Eve Turow-Paul Yeah, I mean, I think that there's also pervasive self judgment amongst young people. And again, I think that's because of social media, I think we are constantly being taught to judge others. And to also be judging ourselves in comparison to them. I mean, when you look at evaluations of what are the top emotions that you feel coming out of time on social media, it's jealousy and envy. People who spend more time on social media are more likely to feel like their relationships with others are superficial to feel like they're often left out to feel as though their friends are more interesting or more successful than they are. And so, I think that we're in a world that asks us to promote ourselves as perfect. Jessica Grossman So obviously the conversation's not over. There was just way too much wisdom to pack into one episode. So we've split it into two parts because trust me, you'll want to soak every bit of Eva and her insights. And I'll be totally honest, Eve had my brain spinning throughout this episode. So if you think this interview is good, you should definitely read her book. Jessica Grossman (28:47.022) Total hidden gem and one of my favorite reads still use a lot of the theories, a lot of the practical actual insights today. And it was just really motivating and enlightening around how we can support climate. So keeping in today's theme, I've got some food for thought. What I recognize is we often place unrealistic expectations on ourselves, thinking everything must be done immediately and flawlessly. But what if, what if, with just a dose of bravery from all of us, we decided that perfection isn't a prerequisite for where they end up. What if we prioritize our own wellbeing, our own sense of prioritization over that constant feel of urgency, over that uncomfortable discomfort of having unchecked off tasks to do or things we haven't done or... unopened emails, what if we were brave and we held space for that discomfort rather than alleviating it by just getting it done, sending that email back right away because we're so afraid we're going to forget it. And also, perhaps by being just a little less judgmental towards ourselves, we could extend more empathy and grace to all those around us. I know that's something that I hold on to and work on every day. So let's be brave together. And that's a wrap for today's episode of Toon Millennial. If you found yourself nodding along, you know the drill. Smash that subscribe button wherever you're tuning in. And if you want a daily dose of leadership wisdom with a sidekick of quirky parent jokes, catch me on Instagram at Coach Jessy Grossman. But hey, if you're serious about leveling up yourself, your team, head over to zlncoaching .com. where we have great tools, resources, and case studies that will help you unlock your potential and enhance your team's resilience and performance. Because here's the truth, when we don't invest time in building our own leadership skills and the skills of those around us, problems fester. We feel disconnected and it's just so hard to get work done. So if you need an executive coach, a sounding board, an offsite facilitator, team consultant, get in touch. Jessica Grossman (31:05.934) Thanks for hanging out with me on TooMillennial. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold, and keep growing. and on our to do list for today. But whenever Eve tells me about her next thing that she's doing, I think I look at her with like crazy eyes. Like what? Wait, what? Like I remember you told me you're gonna write a book on quinoa. Who wants to read a book about quinoa? And then you come out with Jen Yum, obviously a little different, but I was like, what? And then when you started telling me about food for climate, like I was like, but you know, you're doing so great with speaking and there's all these things going in your head. And I'm like, what? You're gonna go run a nonprofit? And. You have to do all, you have to set it up. Like that sounds awful. Absolutely awful. So I think I am your most judgmental critic in fact. You always try to prove me wrong every step of the way. Eve Turow-Paul Well, you're a good friend because you've never said that to my face until now. So, well, there was a time when I really, I was actually pitching like an in -depth article to the New York Times Magazine, which I never picked up. Almost did. I wanted to write about kind of the black market behind quinoa. But that really was the start of me thinking about the impact of food trends on global food systems. So you had a bunch of wealthy people in the United States who suddenly were going crazy for quinoa because it's gluten free and packed with protein and fiber and kind of met all of these other food trends. But then, you know, what most people weren't thinking about is that drive towards this one single ingredient actually upended this entire indigenous food system in Peru.
Episode # 3 Transcript Understanding that everybody makes mistakes is really important and I do see even the most embarrassing. Jessica Grossman I don't make mistakes. Eve Turow-Paul Yes, you're perfect, Jessy. Jessica Grossman (00:19.15) Hey, guys fam, it's your go -to leadership team coach and host, Jessie here, and I'm ready to shake things up. If you're also tired of outdated forms of authority and ready to rebel against the mediocrity of leadership we see today, you might have just found your spot. So join me in unleashing this next generation of leaders by embracing being just a bit too millennial. Let's redefine this thing together. Jessica Grossman (00:52.622) Welcome back to part two of our interview with Eve Turow -Paul. If you haven't caught part one, pause and head back. Now Eve, armed with her psychology degree from Amherst College and a master's from the new school, has consistently forged her unique path. Whether experimenting with recipes alongside Mark Bittman, writing books, or delivering impactful speeches, her trailblazing approach is fueled by this internal passion rather than the external expectations of those around her. which I believe has really rooted her in this fearlessness, this mindset that leverages setbacks for growth. Today's discussion is about just that, learning from failure, a skill that Eve has honed into a superpower. But before we jump into the interview, I wanted to offer some insights into a topic that Eve and I cover at the very top of this interview. this delicate balancing act between being an empathetic leader while also holding those around of us accountable. So what I've noticed in my role as a leadership coach and team consultant is a reoccurring theme and emerging patterns where leaders in pursuit of avoiding those authoritarian vibes of the leader they hated working for back in their 20s, they tend to start management with an overly flexible approach because they have a genuine desire to not hurt people's feelings. and they see people as adults. And what this causes is managers to really shy away from setting and communicating clear expectations. Even though we all have expectations in our brain, right? We forget to communicate what those things are. What this reminds me of is a soccer field that we know where the boundaries are, but we don't communicate them to others. But unfortunately, this lack of clarity often leads to confusion and complexity rather than the intended freedom, right? But what then what happens is leaders think, oh, this whole empathetic leadership thing doesn't work. And they swing to the other side of the pendulum by harping too much on accountability without empathy. So going back to the game where the manager sees the lines of the field but hasn't yet to communicate them, I just imagine kids dribbling the ball off into the forest, Jessica Grossman (03:10.062) with the coach running after them, screaming at them to come back, telling them that they're not following the direction back to a field that they actually never even knew existed. Or think about that cool mom, right? That tells you, oh, just go and have fun. I trust your judgment. And then when you return, you return to someone yelling at you saying, why are you home so late? Why didn't you text me? And as you can imagine, this is very disorienting and results in confusion, chaos, and demotivation. So what do we do as leaders? The first thing we need to do is to debunk the myth that accountability and empathy are mutually exclusive. When in fact, accountability and empathy go hand in hand, research actually consistently emphasizes that effective leaders are able to seamlessly blend both elements. The second step is setting clear expectations. People do not need a cool boss, but a sturdy adult who sets clear guidelines fostering both that freedom and security. As Jaco says, discipline equals freedom. But this isn't just about you setting your expectations. It's also about creating open dialogue and making this a shared experience and endeavor. Step three is setting strong feedback loops. It is critical that when holding people accountable and being empathetic that we provide critical feedback that holds the lines of when individuals are actually not meeting our needs or are going above and beyond our needs. But we should always do this without assuming ill intent and also We should do this by creating an environment where improvement is encouraged. And step four is acknowledging the limits of our perspective. When we do this, step one, two, and three just feel better. Because we approach conversations, we approach people with humility. We acknowledge that our perspective is based on our experience, and thus we all hold biases and a lack of certain information. And this recognition opens the door to multiple ways of thinking and in knowing and allows us to approach a conversation. that both holds people accountable to their behavior while also being open enough to understand someone else's point of view, the context and the emotionality behind it. Jessica Grossman (05:16.59) So if you're like, yes, these are great, but how do I actually put this into action? I have some scripts for you all to use. The first script is about explaining the behavior that you've noticed. So when you approach a conversation, you're gonna say, I've noticed you've, and then you can insert the behavior that you've noticed. So for example, you've missed two deadlines. Then you can explain why this behavior is important to the team or in what way did you all set expectations. So, For an example, you might say, this is critical for the team to be able to coordinate the work. And then this is the most critical part of the whole script is that we then wanna offer an open -ended question to allow us to understand the other person's point of view. For example, we might say, can we explore what's happening here? Or can you please help me understand your viewpoint or what's going on for you on this issue? What this reminds me of is this idea of firm empathy, which is a term coined by Kim Scott, the author of Radical Candor. And firm empathy is about caring personally about our team members while also daring to challenge them directly. So by intertwining these clear expectations and openness, leaders can then create an environment where teams not only survive, but thrive, learning and growing from their missteps. So the next time you're concerned with hurting someone's feelings, Or you start lashing out when you feel like people aren't doing what you think they should be doing. Let's remember from empathy. But I really want you to embody is this idea that bell hooks brings, which is quote, for me, forgiveness and compassion are always linked. How do we hold people accountable for wrongdoing and yet at the same time remain in touch with their humanity enough to believe in their capacity to be transformed? End quote. So we're going to jump. right into the episode. It might feel a little bit disorienting at first because we're leaving off right where we left off in our first episode, but you'll figure out your bearings very quickly. Enjoy. It's actually something that I think that I'm relatively good at. And then sometimes I'm like, am I being too kind to myself? Like if I'm really drained and I don't get something done or I make a mistake, I don't know. I don't know why exactly, but I have found. Eve Turow-Paul (07:39.15) piece with saying, you know what, Eve, you messed up and you're not going to do it again. And you really learned something from this and we're going to move forward. But most people that I work with don't have that reaction. They're it's like, you know, this is massively embarrassing. There's tears. There's a lot of self criticism. There's a sense of imposter syndrome. And I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate that for for others to help. cultivate that, again, that kind of fine balance between like self care, giving yourself grace, self love, and still encouraging high quality work. What are some of the things that you've seen work? I mean, I think that I repeat to others what I repeat to myself when I make mistakes. I also, part of what I really love about the team that we have cultivated at Food for Climate League is that when something isn't done well, there's no finger pointing. There is. a kind of collective call to action of like, okay, what could we have done better? How do we move forward? And for me as a leader, what I do is I position this as part of being in a startup, right, which is and that as an ethos that was started in Silicon Valley of it's prototyping and iterating and failure is just an opportunity to learn how to do something better. And so that's really how we we frame it, if it's, you know, a mistake that's made with all of the best intentions, that's very different than a mistake that's made because you just weren't trying. And at FCL, I will say that I have never actually, never, I have in very few cases witnessed that someone has made a mistake because they just weren't trying. And, you know, and that is more of a leadership question. And, you know, the times that I have seen that then, that person's not the right fit for our organization. But if someone's making a mistake with all of the best intentions, that's not a reason to let somebody go. That's a part of growth. That's a learning opportunity. And so it's framing it that way rather than as a failure. I love that approach. Two things that that reminds me of. One, I think of Amy Edmondson. Amy Edmondson has a really wonderful framework for mistakes and failure. Jessica Grossman (10:03.726) What is really effective failure and what is not good failure? Because I think it's too broad of a term. We group it as you've been. So we actually have to look at the context behind the failure. So that's a really, really great model. I'll link the article in the show notes. And I also wanted to double click on the whole idea of how do we show off for people when they do fail? And it is a really embarrassing moment for them. And I think as leaders, one of the things I see, that they fail to do is to just be in that space with them, get on the ground with them. And it's not that you want to feel all of the things that they're feeling, right? We don't want to absorb everyone's emotions, but how do you get on the ground with that? And you might not feel that embarrassment. You might not understand what about the situation is so upsetting, but one of the things leaders miss because we're trying so hard to soothe that person in front of us. We want them to feel better. We want them to know they're a valuable part of our team that forget to just be present with them when they're having a hard time. The ways to build confidence is mistakes and it's having that self -compassion to pick ourselves up afterwards. It's a really critical part of being able to take risk. And I, that is what you are. I think that's your superpower Eve. I really do all the things you talked about. earlier, it's a superpower. I hear you talk about that. And that makes a lot of sense. Like I've known you my whole life. Like when you do things, I'm always like I said, what is she doing? And it's because when you make mistakes, again, you you have this confidence and you have this compassion for failing that most of us just don't have. Really unique. Eve Turow-Paul Yeah, I mean, food for climate is not the first endeavor. Right before this, I had a separate concept. a kind of retreat and spent a good amount of time working on that. And it just didn't, I don't feel like that was a waste of time. I learned a lot in that process. Did that business concept work? No. I mean, I just found the file, like my incorporation files and I was like, oh, right. I made a company that didn't go anywhere. There's parts of that work that still come up now and again. Eve Turow -Paul (12:29.614) the person I was collaborating with, I loved the opportunity to get to know her better. And it wasn't the right time, it wasn't the right vision for a multitude of reasons. And I think it would be really easy to just be like, oh, you know, if you screw you mess this up, because of you that this didn't happen. But I think that life is too complicated for that. And usually there isn't one one thing to blame. And Listen, I also am in a really, really privileged position where I had the financial stability to fail. I think that's another part of this is like building the. I mean, that is not my strength. I'm the sore loser you've ever met in life. I don't, I don't lose. And part of it is because, you know, it is, it's painful. It is painful when I lose, when I make mistakes. So, Jessy, you were scary as a kid. I'm not gonna lie, I mean around around sports in particular because of that competitive spirit but I think that then you never know that you're saying it. I don't remember ever remember you kind of pointing blame at other people it always was at yourself. And I think that that was always something that was hard to watch because I also have seen how hard that you work. And You know, but again, it's a different thing too. And I don't know if you've done any research on this, but there's a difference between knowing what you should feel, knowing you should give yourself grace and then the actual practice of it. So I don't know if you have any recommendations of how can I help others give themselves that grace and forgive themselves and see those mistakes as actually building blocks towards a better performance in the future. Jessica Grossman I think for me, I mean, that's a really, really good question. As someone who is highly sensitive, which I think you both get, because I call myself the turtle, like I'm a turtle, right? Like I got the hard shell because it's protecting that. I think we're like opposite, like you, you come across, you yourself, I always admire your vulnerability. I'm a turtle. Like I, you know, I use jokes to mask any emotion and it's to protect the very sensitive inside, but it doesn't mean I don't feel the way I feel. Jessica Grossman (14:42.862) And one of the things that makes the difference is to connect with me emotionally in that moment. There is no appeasing or there's no silver lining or there's nothing you can say to make me feel better in that moment. So what I've learned and how to soothe myself is to accept that this, this belongs, right? Tara Brock is my favorite person to listen to. And so we just say this belongs, this belongs. feeling lost. So it's not trying to push it away. It's not trying to change my mind. It's actually the acceptance of that state that helps me move forward. And so many times clients come to me saying, I don't want to feel this way. Help me not feel this way. The more you try to push it away, the more it's going to hurt. And yeah, when I, when I have those states, the way in which I've learned to cope with it is I tell myself this along and by seeing the The emotions is data for me, that it's telling me something, that I am telling myself something that is part of my own intelligence of my body. Eve Turow-Paul It makes sense to me. Yeah, so for anyone with a little turtle out there. I mean, this is not to say that I haven't experienced moments of intense shame. I mean, like I have. I've made... especially when I was younger and at my 20s. I think that that's really when kind of the self -criticism and intense shame came in. But I think as an organization though, as a leader of an organization, I need to frame whatever failures or mistakes we are making as learning opportunities because they really have been. I mean, the work that we're doing now is completely different than the work that we were doing before. And even for myself, I I am writing a new business contract right now. I'm thinking to myself this morning, like, I never would have known to put X, Y, and Z clause in to the contract last year or two years ago. And I'm dealing with the consequences of that in a couple of situations. But instead of being mad at myself, I'm just like, there's no way I could have known that. I mean, maybe if I had, you know, lived a different life, but I didn't. And so I just need to accept this, but I didn't put this in the contract before, but now I've lived. Eve Turow- Paul(17:03.758) And I've made those mistakes. And so now I know I'm far more savvy when writing my business contracts, or I know, I know who to send it to, to have them review it. I know not to rush myself through the process because someone else has a deadline too bad. I need to go through the process myself. Um, but yeah, there's, there's so much learning along the way by making errors and, and, you know, along the way too, it's just saying, well, okay, how do I manage the errors? How do I make sure that this doesn't turn into something, you know, uh, more significant than it is right now. Jessy Grossman That is such a great piece of information, I think, for listeners to take with them in terms of this happens all the time to all of us and it is so easy to beat yourself up over not knowing the future. We don't have a magical ball as much as we would have loved to. What advice would you love to go back and give to yourself four and a half years ago? Eve Turow-Paul I have absolutely no idea. Jessica Grossman (18:03.374) I love you so much. That is awesome. I give myself. Eve Turow-Paul I mean, so it goes back to the same thing of like, well, I could try to educate myself four years ago on all the things that I've learned up until now. But I also think that that learning process, that failure process is making me a stronger and better leader, is making me a better and stronger researcher. Something that I wish that I hadn't learned and understood. bit more upfront is really just judging how to hire. Who are the right people for your team? I think that some of the best advice that I've gotten along the way is like if your gut is telling you that a person is not right for your team, you need to get over the emotion of it. There are people who I've really liked personally, like I like them as human beings, but they're not the right fit for the team for a variety of reasons. And I've often not acted because I felt bad. They were my friends. I liked them. I didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings. And that's really been since the very beginning of the organization. And that's been a really hard thing for me to deal with because relationships are so core to, I think, the work that we do. But over time, I've learned, like, if you're really friends with that person, if you're honest with them about their own skill set, what the needs are of the organization, there's a way to move forward. as friends and to continue supporting one another in your career journeys and to think of this as a career journey. This isn't the end of the road. And so I think that I really would have appreciated knowing a little bit more, having more encouragement on that topic in particular from the outset, because I had never built a team before. I also think that there's something about being a woman. I think there's something about being a relatively young woman, not that young anymore, but. in not wanting to hurt somebody's feelings. I think there's like a little bit of that kind of maternal stereotypical hesitancy. I think that there's something really valuable for female leaders in this space. Maybe not even just me. I also have talked to my male friends about this and they feel the same way. So maybe it's not necessarily being a woman. This is my love language. How do you design and build a team? And I think that... Jessica Grossman (20:21.934) We undervalue the importance of it within the organizational space. Another thing I wanted to touch on on this, which is this idea of having difficult conversations. There's a party that thinks generationally this is something that's going to be impactful for millennial leaders. I think it's something that, and I'm still clarifying my ideas around this, but I love your input, but there's this idea, I talked to a client yesterday and. they were concerned of overwhelming other people and people on their team. There's this sense that I have to take care of you. And I'm here to take care of people. And if we look at that too kind of directly, linearly, sometimes that stops us from making decisions that we know are right. Eve Turow-Paul Yes. I mean, I can identify with that hugely. And again, it's this fine line of like, well, someone's my friend and they're going through a hard time. And... Should I give them the benefit of the doubt because they're going through X, Y, and Z. And it's like, well, but as the executive director of this organization, like X, Y, and Z work isn't getting done either because they don't have the right skill set. And it's literally just like a matchmaking error, or they do have something else happening in their lives and they're not performing their job the way that they need to be performing it. Um, and. I think having those kinds of difficult conversations has been one of the hardest parts for me. It's something I'm still not terribly good at and our director of operations is much better at it than I am. Which is also why I think it's great to have a partner, you know, other people in your organization who you can also talk to and go to for advice, particularly in those kinds of situations. And so I think having great sounding boards and other people you trust to go to. Jessica Grossman I call this section the Jolt of Insight, which I'm going to ask just some Quick hitting question. So first things come to mind. All right, so tell me three words that you would say describe the state of mind that you've had as a leader in the last six months. Eve Turow-Paul State of mind. Yes. Focused, aspirational, empathetic. Jessica Grossman What is your favorite millennial quality about yourself? Eve Turow-Paul (22:42.99) Oh, I actually think it is this idea that I can achieve something. If I get the right people around me, if I get the right people around me, if I get the right advice, not anything, right? I don't think that I can achieve absolutely anything in the world, but there it is. Uh, it may be, maybe it is overconfidence, but I do believe that if you kind of put the right pieces into place, you can achieve a whole lot in this world. And I'm not afraid to step out on my own. And I'm not sure that a young woman. of a previous generation with a background as a writer would feel comfortable starting a foundation and hiring a team and doing this work. Agreed. JessicaGrossman What is your favorite millennial quality about me? I need to think about what is millennial about you. I just think of you as like the full package of Jessy. No, actually, I know. I know what it is. I love emotionally in tune you are. And I think that there are so many different kind of philosophers in this space right now of well -being and leadership. And this is a very millennial space of thinking about how to cultivate. kind of the correct organization and play into people's emotions. And you have taken that over the last few years and done a true deep dive and cultivated it in your life. And I think that's super millennial and super awesome. Jessica Grossman Yeah, of course. Let's take the research and make it all about me. Most millennial thing ever. What's one thing you want to change people's mind on? Eve Turow-Paul Oh,I want people to understand that we can use food as a top solution to the climate crisis. And that that doesn't mean that you're sacrificing things. It means that we actually need to diversify what we're eating and that there's a lot of really amazing food experiences ahead for us. Jessica Grossman You could offer one actionable piece of advice to our listeners. What would it be? On leadership? No, you can be on climate and food. Eve Turow-Paul (24:53.998) One actionable piece of advice. Well, actually, I think my actionable piece of advice. is the same for leadership as it would be for changing your eating habits, which is one day at a time and be kind to yourself. I have a lot of people in my life right now who are watching, You Are What You Eat on Netflix, or they're watching the Blue Zones special on Netflix and they're saying, I really do need to change what it is that I'm eating for climate reasons, but also for my physical health and my mental health. And they say, but I don't know where to start. I eat meat every day. I don't know how to cook. And again, I think this is about being empathetic, accepting the fact that, yeah, you're going to have to learn some new skills. You're going to have to try some things out. There's going to be some failures. Why don't you try to say, okay, one day a week, you're going to be plant -based and you're just going to do the research on that plant -based meal. And then you can slowly increase kind of your commitment to it as you increase your skills so that you feel confident in doing it. And that for me was. you know, taking out red meat and then it was reducing chicken and then it was, you know, taking away some farm salmon and while I should say you're taking those things away, but in the meantime, you're learning to cook all of these new things. So I'm adding way more to my diet than I'm removing. I'd say one day at a time and it's the same thing for leadership. I think it's, you know, allowing yourself the space to fail, but also like we were saying before, you can't assume. Oh, I really wish I would have known this. You can't know it until you live it and until you try it. Jessica Grossman I love that answer. Where can people find you? Where can they learn more? Where can they? Yeah, where can they learn more? By the way, thank you for using. I know that you did this on purpose, which is to use my favorite color for your bucket. Eve Turow-Paul Yeah, it is your favorite color. You're just inspired by me. Yeah, you're like, oh, Jess, you'll like that. I'm going to use that one. So you can learn more about Food for Climate League at foodforclimateleague. I know it's very long. I'm working to change it to food for climate org in the future. But food for climate league le a G you eat and find myself you and information on the book you can go to Eve Turo Paul calm Turo is T U R O W and then Paul like first name calm and yeah, we can email directly through either of those websites and you can also buy my book. through my own personal website. You can also request it from your local bookstore. Jessica Grossman Lovely. And before we head off, I did want to make sure you got your certificate of participation. Woohoo! That I colored myself. As you can see, I'm highly artistic. I love the gamification of the reward system. You are now a member of the Two Millennia. You're just too millennial. Eve Turow-Paul I'm going to put it on my office wall. Jessica Grossman I want to give a big thanks to Eve for kicking the podcast off with these wonderful interviews. Before we go, I wanted to drop this quote from Amy Edmondson, who's the lead research on failure and just came out with a book called Right Kind of Wrong, The Science of Feeling Well. Quote, failure can be a gift, even if it didn't feel like one at the time. Why does failure feel so bad in the moment? Well, understanding the pain of failure involves acknowledging the emotional response that can be tied to this perceived judgment. What that mistake says about who we are as a person. And in a success driven world where there's this underlining pressure that we have to be successful and right to be worthy. Failure can be viewed as this ego threatening event, right? It activates the fear of looking bad and it triggers our amygdala, which is the threat response center in the brain. And so according to Edmondson, This can create a flood of potential guilt and shame, which ultimately hinders the learning process. So here's the thing. We don't need to try to ignore or get rid of these truly painful feelings. What it's about, it's about acknowledging that it sucks. Naming the feeling first and letting ourselves just feel bad for a time. Because if we jump in, and try to find that silver lining in those moments, we're not in a place of learning. And when we push our feelings away, the more the linger, whether we realize it or not. An example of this that I'll share is, you also all know that I'm a parent and I absolutely love Dr. Becky, who's a parenting expert. And she advises parents to give kids those quote unquote life lessons. Jessica Grossman (29:39.566) when their child is not flooded with emotions because kids can't learn in the middle of a pantrop. So as adults, even if we are better at self -regulation, I still believe if we try to jump straight into the learning, we're not going to be effective at learning anything. So just remember, give yourself the space to feel. And once you're ready, give yourself the space to reflect on what has happened. If you want to learn more, I have actually developed a step -by -step approach on how you bounce back from failure and mistakes. This guide called the five steps for writing the failure roller coaster. It's like a precursor to how you feel well. And I've actually linked it in the show notes. So it's five steps. It's really clear. And it talks about how you move from this emotional state of shame, blame, frustration, anger, disappointment. into a place of learning. And as a bonus, I've also added the scripts and information from the intro of the podcast on acceptance and empathy as well. So go to the show notes now and download your failure in acceptance playbook right now. And that's a wrap for today's episode of To Millennial. If you found yourself nodding along, you know the drill. Smash that subscribe button wherever you're tuning in. And if you want a daily dose of leadership wisdom with a sidekick of quirky parent jokes, catch me on Instagram at Coach Jessie Grossman. But hey, if you're serious about leveling up yourself, your team, head over to zlncoaching .com where we have great tools, resources, and case studies that will help you unlock your potential and enhance your team's resilience and performance. Because here's the truth. When we don't invest time in building our own leadership skills, and the skills of those around us, problems fester. We feel disconnected and it's just so hard to get work done. So if you need an executive coach, a sounding board, an offsite facilitator, a team consultant, get in touch. Thanks for hanging out with me on To Millennial. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold, and keep growing. Jessica Grossman (31:51.759) And before we leave, I had to pull this one up because it's just too cute. Yeah, that's my favorite photo. Who would have thought these two little cuties would be, you know, one being an amazing leader and client activist and the other one trying to start a podcast.
Episode #4 Full Transcript if you're just swamped with all the emails and all of a sudden you poke your head up from your desk and you're like, oh my goodness, I'm really hungry. Or, oh my goodness, I have to go to the bathroom. And you're so disembodied because you're so in your mental space that you don't even realize the basic needs and signals that your body is telling you to take care of just your general wellbeing. Jessica Grossman (00:31.118) I am, it's your go -to leadership team coach and host, Jessie here, and I'm ready to shake things up. If you're also tired of outdated forms of authority and ready to rebel against the mediocrity of leadership we see today, you might have just found your spot. So join me in unleashing this next generation of leaders by embracing being just a bit too millennial. Let's redefine this thing together. Jessica Grossman (01:04.813) Picture this, you're in a leadership role tasked with guiding your team through a tricky situation. You have the expertise, you know all the ways to motivate others and communication skills to be a successful leader. Get in the middle of the perceived chaos, how you're feeling isn't the way you show up because let's be honest, you're stressed. What do you think happens at that moment with your team? you'll probably find yourself reacting in ways that aren't aligned to the moment and your values. Managing stress authentically without flooding our team is crucial as a leader, especially in today's rapidly changing last landscape where we're all feeling stress quite a lot. So this brings me to our topic today, the idea of embodied leadership. Because my clients are constantly facing stress that they're navigating on a day -to -day basis. So defined by International Coaching Federation, embodied leadership is really about how others respond to and organize around our energetic and physical presence. So let's get practical for a moment. When someone speaks, are you truly listening? What does your body language convey in that moment? Understanding our own tendencies and their impact on others is key to embodied leadership approach. Consider your bodily reactions to an unexpected challenge. And trust me, we face those every day all day long. How do they shape your body? Because change happens through our body influencing how we show up each day. Without that alignment, we risk reacting in ways that aren't true to the moment. And trust me, I know this from experience. I mean, for me, when I'm most uncomfortable or feeling vulnerable, I actually act the opposite to what's happening in my body. Like, I put on this hard, invisible wall around me. It's my defense mechanism kicking in. But what actually happens is that I've learned that this actually hinders authentic connection, the very thing I want. I mean, I'm afraid of feeling rejected, so I reject others first by putting on Jessica Grossman (03:27.15) this act in my body. Because at the end of the day, pushing away stress or worries, it won't cut it. Authentic transparent communication requires navigating these stresses effectively, even amidst all the BS we all face. And this is really pointed out by research by psychologist James Gross, and this is some of my favorite research. He sheds light on really the hidden costs of emotional suppression. It actually increases this idea of physiological arousal, which are things like increasing our heart rate. It creates psychological distress and strained relationships. Because as I said before, the interaction is perceived as inauthentic or disingenuous. Because over time, chronic suppression of emotions actually contributes to mental health issues such as depression and anxiety. So no matter how skilled we are at our job, emotions, understanding our emotions and being good at navigating them is important because suppressing our emotions, sweeping them under the rug, they eventually and inevitably resurface, impacting our ability to lead in our relationships. This is why embodied learning is essential. It's about being aware of how our actions impact ourselves, our goals, and others. Because too often, leadership is just about the cognitive. We forget it's actually about an embodied practice, presence, and commitment. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by the incredible Nicole Belica, who will be sharing her insights into living in an embodied way. Nicole's journey into yoga is anything but linear, having transitioned from kind of the intensity of the tennis courts to the corporate world. Now she's really found that passion in yoga. Yoking, which apparently comes from this idea of joining or connecting. And yes, I did have to ask ChatgPT as I prepared for this, because I had, didn't know what yoking was. I had heard it, but I was rather confused. So I thought of an egg I did. But apparently it's at the heart of her approach. It's really about integrating the body, mind and spirit, providing stability amongst, amidst life's most dynamic stories. Nicole. Jessica Grossman (05:47.79) is a yoga practitioner, but for me, her expertise really extends beyond that because her knowledge around the body just never ceases to amaze me. Because, I mean, if you really think about it, she's trained in prenatal yoga, doula birth work, nidra, as well as trauma informed practices. She has cold plunges, mindfulness and breathing techniques and coaching. She's a reiki master. I'd say for me, one of the reasons I've connected to Nicole so deeply, is she's really found a way to turn my racing mind and everyone who knows me knows that that brain is strong and always working. It really allows me to connect what's happening in the brain into the physical world by centering the emotional, physical and cognitive needs into movement and practice. But again, due to her knowledge, I also get to like connect why we're doing these things, like what this, you know, what does this practice really do for our body? And I guess really understand it on this intellectual idea. as well as actually getting to put it into practice in an embodied way. Jessica Grossman (06:54.19) So I have a very special guest here today. Many of you who know me know that this person supports most of my needs by being the most amazing bartender for me. She essentially coaches me on all things life. I call her my life guru. Uh, but in reality, what she actually does, what our real job is, she's a yoga teacher, mindfulness coach, and entrepreneur. And. I'm really glad to bring this perspective, especially to the podcast. So welcome to, welcome to two millennial Nicole. Thank you so much for having me, Jessie. I'm so honored and excited to be here and chat all things life, mindfulness, yoga, and wherever this conversation takes us. So just so everyone knows that today we're going to be doing a very quick interview, but then luckily we're going to do some movement, which will be led by Nicole. And if you're not watching. Doesn't matter. Nicole's that good. She's really that good that you don't even have to watch the screen. You can just listen and do the movement alongside. I talked about embodiment at the top of this podcast. In what way is embodiment important? Nicole Belica Well, when speaking to embodiment specifically, I think it's important to just make note that I'm very much coming from the lens of yoga, that being always one of my primary filters in life. And so when we talk about embodiment specifically with yoga, it's awareness and development of how we as people experience the world through our bodies. So in terms of the importance of embodiment on a regular basis, day to day, If we lack embodiment, often there's like this form of disassociation in ways that that can play out really commonly in your day -to -day life is if you're just swamped with all the emails and all of a sudden you poke your head up from your desk and you're like, oh my goodness, I'm really hungry. Or, oh my goodness, I have to go to the bathroom. And you're so disembodied because you're so in your mental space that you don't even realize the basic needs. Nicole Belica (09:05.806) and signals that your body is telling you to take care of just your general well -being and your overall welfare. So that's truly like the root, I think of embodiment is often we don't even realize the signals that our body is messaging, sending messages to our brain so that we can show up and exist in a way that truly just meets our basic needs. So in theory, we're just missing a huge component of being in the present moment. And if you're not in the present moment, how are you truly existing maybe in the past or the future, but you are not. here in the net, which is where life is unfolding. Based on your embodiment journey, what are those key aspects that you think are critical for leaders to really embrace this idea of embodied leadership? I mean, it truly starts with modeling first and foremost, living your life in an embodied way. Tuning into any sensations that your body might be feeling, whether it's hunger, having to use the restroom, or maybe it's tension that's creeping up in your shoulders, a headache, a clenching of your jaw, right? Observing those physical sensations that your body is sending you is a great way to start to anchor yourself in the present moment. And then based on the messaging that your body is sending you, You then are cultivating awareness. And from that place of awareness, you can then choose to respond as opposed to react for whatever the present moment has to offer. One of my favorite all time quotes is from Victor Finkle, very famous, um, philosophists that said between stimulus and response, there is a space and in that space is our power to choose our response. Nicole Belica(11:04.75) And our response lies our growth and our freedom. And those are just kind of the many facets, the many layers of how embodiment is a leader. And then hopefully, as you model that behavior yourself, create a ripple effect into the folks that you work with and manage and lead on a day -to -day basis. Jessy Grossman So what I'm hearing you say is the first thing that we need to do is we need to really be aware of what the signals of our body is telling us. The next thing we need to do is once we are aware of that means that we can respond before we get to the point where our body then is telling us something we probably don't want to hear. And so if we just wait, if we're not embodied in the moment, if we're not aware of that, we usually get to the point where it's much harder to do the things we need to do every day. Nicole Belica Truly, and a lot of it comes down to nervous system regulation and stress management. After a long day of maybe emails, we come home and we don't realize that we're carrying tension in our shoulder. We're frustrated for maybe correspondence, and then maybe we're a little agitated and we say something that we don't mean to a loved one. And so we're trying to strategically be in our bodies in the present moment. so that we can actually respond to whatever the situation at hand is offering, as opposed to maybe being reactive from stress that we might be carrying from our day. Jessy Grossman I do have to say you're making me very hungry right now just talking about this. Nicole Belica Feel free to grab a snack, Jessy. But that's like a beautiful example of the interplay of the body and the mind. One of the key components of yoga is this integration to yoke union. And often, with this disassociation that can happen due to lack of embodiment, Nicole Belica(13:08.174) our minds and our bodies are not working in conjunction together. And so it was previously believed that for the most part, our brain was sending messages to our body. But now science is finding that it's truly this multi -directional highway that what our body is experiencing sends information to our brain. And then our brain processes that to then again help dictate how we are living in the moment. And so when the body and the mind are truly in the same place at the same time, that's when we can show up as our most whole selves and interact in the world in a very meaningful way, whether that is in the leadership realm, work, career, or at home with your family and loved ones. Jessy Grossman I'm not quite sure anyone's body or brain are ever in the same place in this world. And so, uh, you should, we should all try it. Just try it one day, see what happens. One of the things that used to happen, I used to go and work out and I used to work out like my shoulders, my back. And I found myself after doing like hardcore arm days and shoulder days, I felt in an enhanced stress. I just felt more stress. And I was like, but I, I'm not like, I don't have stress in my life. So why, when I work out my shoulders, do I just, the next day when I'm sore there, I feel more stressed. Nicole Belica And that sheds light on that statement that I said not too long ago on how what we're experiencing in our body also sends messaging to our brain. And so when we're carrying tension in certain areas, and obviously we all embody tension in different ways, but tension in the shoulders, the chest region can most likely contribute to feelings of anxiety. And so that's where you see the interplay of the body and the mind and how that impacts your overall wellbeing. Nicole Belica(15:18.062) And this, you know, this idea of mind and body in the same place at the same time, like, it sounds so simple in theory, but in practicality with all the demands of life, like truly, it's a constant practice, even for myself. I know that one of the things that I do whenever I'm feeling a little overwhelmed, I take a glance down at my feet, just to remind myself like this is where I am in this moment. Really? Yeah. This is where I am right now. Look down at my feet and this is where I'm standing. Jessy Grosman I love that. It's such an easy practice. Is there any other ways or mechanisms that people can put this into practice besides looking at their feet? Some people might have a strong reaction to their feet. Nicole Belica Um, fair. Um, deep breaths are another great way to, um, even not only anchor yourself in the present moment, but also shift your state of being because we know that the breath is very closely correlated to nervous system regulation. So those slow steady deep breaths on both the inhale, the exhale, sometimes even just placing your hands on your abdomen, your ribs to create that bit of biofeedback to really tap into your breath can be useful. Also counting the breath in terms of how our brain functions. It's impossible for our brains to count and experience worry at the same time. Which is so fascinating, right? Jessy Grossman I mean, I've been doing a lot of counting with my children these past couple of days. And I guess it's kind of like when I, when I am counting, it's like, there's nothing else you can think about but counting. Nicole Belica Breathing, counting, looking at your feet, you know, and different practices and different techniques work for different people. So I always say it's a bit of trial and error. to see what works for you in terms of just creating sensation in your body to help bring you into the here, the now. You know, cold therapy is a big thing right now. Jessy Grossman I think if people want me to bring Nicole back for cold therapy, I think she could do probably 10 episodes on that one. Nicole Belica (17:46.766) I'm fortunate enough where I have, I can never say it properly, but I have rhinoids and so my hands are always cold and you know, there's this phenomenon that they call divers reflex, where if you place something cold on your chest, your neck, that automatically starts to slow down your nervous system, bringing you more into that parasympathetic place. So whenever I'm feeling super anxious, I just take my ice cold hands and I place them on the back of my neck and my chest to tap into that divers reflex, the physiological response that my body gives me to then start to slow down. So like I said, there's different techniques for everyone. Jessy Grossman So I want to throw a scenario out at you because this is something that my clients face all the time as leaders, but you're stuck in a spot where you have so much contextual pressure on you. So either, so there's, there's all these stakeholders, whether they're board members or your own managers, and they have all these expectations on you and you're absorbing all those pressures. And then you're in the middle and you have all these people under you who are looking to you to guide them, to lead them, to set the vision, but also care for them and solve their problems. And a lot of their stress comes back up at you. What's happening to that person without them really knowing? Nicole Belica So those are what we would deem stressors, right? And we all manage and carry stress in different ways. And I think it's important to just acknowledge that when I talk about stress, it's in a very neutral way based on our conversation and truly coming down to nervous system regulation. And we know that long -term chronic stress can have very detrimental impacts on our overall well -being and our health. And so tapping into how your body is carrying stress, to then find different tools to move through that stress because we can't just think our way through it because our bodies are actually carrying that stress. So we need to move through that stress in some way, shape or form, whether you go on your stationary bike or you do different breathing techniques. There's so many different ways to, to work through this physical charge that your body is experiencing due to stressors in your life. It's just a matter of a identifying how that's showing up for you and then how you can physically move through it because it extends beyond just thinking your way through it. Jessy Grossman I really want to highlight this point. We're all so used to just thinking our way through things and I think so many people come. into my space and they ask me, how do I not have stress? It's really a very common question I get. And again, why I think me and you, people wonder or curious, why would I have, you know, a yogi, yoga practitioner onto the podcast? The stress is so integral to the work I do with my clients. And a lot of the ways that I work with people on stress is the thinking part of it, right? We do a lot of, we do a lot of work on reappraisal which is a really wonderful mechanism to help navigate stress, psychological distancing, all wonderful ways. But I think that what's missing when I work with my clients is also this idea that stress is living in the body and we still need to physically work our way through. Guess who's coming into the picture right now. I love it. Just so everyone's aware, all my listeners, if you're listening to this, my dog just walked in and whenever I'm doing yoga with Nicole, Lulu always has to make an entrance. So why would this be any different? And now she's going to sit at the door and whine. Nicole Belica It's the Lulu knows whenever I'm around. I was going to have her say this is a good way to relieve stress, right? Petting your dog? True. Yeah. And that's like another way, like you're doing a physical activity and there's a lot of science that supports, you know, petting your animals, whether it's dog, cat, whatever it might be, that's a way to help manage stress. Like I think this idea of removing stress from our lives is somewhat of a false concept as there are constantly stressors, but it's just a matter of am I responding to the stressor in an appropriate way? Jessica Grossman (22:32.302) Exactly. One of the things that was important to me when I was learning about stress was one, just what stress is, which is stressor plus a physiological reaction equals stress, right? We perceive threat. I know some people don't like the idea of threat, but threat is just we perceive that something's getting in the way of our goal. So it could be even a small goal of like, I need to get this task done. Someone messages you with Oh, hey, can you write this email first? Like that is that's that's a stressor. That's that's a perceived threat to the goal of you finishing whatever task. So that might be your perceived threat. Then your body has a physiological response to that perception and then that stress. And like you said, there's no there's not good. There's this idea of you stress, which is like good stress. But as you said, like it's neutral because there's it there's stress. isn't good or bad, it is a physiological response. It is our body talking to us and giving us information and data. Nicole Belica And if we don't listen to those messages that our body sends us, then that's when we have these long -term physiological chronic effects on our body that results in that illness. Jessy Grossman And the more you try to push it away, like you said, that's the dissociation. And you might... It might for a while, you might think you're not feeling it, but it's there. It's going to wait to come out. And I've had clients who tell me who have, who are dealing with an extreme amount of stress and how was your week? And they said, I, I, I just started crying and these are highly resilient people. I just started crying. I couldn't stop crying at uncontrollable crying. And that was the way in which their stress was coming out. Yeah. Nicole Belica And, you know, sometimes it's unpredictable. If, you know, we just disassociate and detach ourselves so much that at some point we don't know how that truly is going to come forward and manifest for us in our bodies. And, you know, the hope is that it's not too little too late once we actually do start to address whatever is coming forward. Jessica Grossman (24:53.742) Yes. And so this is exactly why I want Nicole on the show. When we think about the next generation of leaders, you know, obviously I really believe that it's up to us to set an example that the thinking part is great and I can do a whole episode on reappraisal and psychological distancing. And those are wonderful techniques, but sometimes we can't think our way through it and we need to balance that out with the movement. So rather than just having Nicole tell us or talk us through some of the ways that we can move our body in order to move stress out, I thought it was really important for us to just actually be able to practice this together. Nicole Belica (25:41.966) Following it back to what I mentioned, one of my favorite techniques to anchor myself in the moment is to check in with my feet. So whether you're still seated at your desk or Jessy mentioned walking, or if you're standing, take that moment to glance down at your feet. And I'm standing in this moment. If you are yourself standing, maybe start to integrate a heel raise. You can raise one heel at a time. Jesse, you're seated. Yeah, point a flex of your toes. If you're in a chair and seated, point and flex your toes, a few circles through your ankle, two or three one direction, two or three the other. And I particularly like working with the feet and checking in with the feet is because geographically speaking, when you're looking at the anatomy of your body, your feet are literally in the exact opposite direction of your head. And since we tend to live so much in our head space, like literally going the complete opposite way to find, where you are in this moment. So again, seated, standing, start to point and flex your feet, lift a circle through your ankles. Love that, Jessie. I'm watching you at home kind of balance on one leg and talk about balance, right? That requires so much of your attention. I know I'm getting a few cracks and pops over here as well. Okay. So eventually standing tall and proud, feet underneath your hips. If you are on a chair seated, a firm press down through your sit bones. And taking one more glance at your feet, just that reminder that this is where I am in this moment. And then from your feet, start to make a scan of your body moving up through your calves, your shins, your knees, your thighs, hips, your torso, front and back, shoulders down to your fingertips, even noticing what's happening in the features of your face, all the way up to the top of your head. And then truly just taking stock inventory of anything that might be coming forward. Maybe there's some warmth in your belly. If... Nicole Belica (27:54.414) Tapping into the physical sensations in your body is something that feels uncomfortable to you. Maybe your heart rate starts to pick up a little bit. Hands, right, warm, cold, tingling, the temperature, just truly anything and everything that you can take in, in terms of physical sensation that your body is experiencing. Nicole Belica (28:20.302) and it's neutral, it's non -judgmental. Nicole Belica (28:26.03) Take a big shrug of your shoulders, high up by your ears. Exhale, pull your shoulders down away from your ears. Two more of these shoulder shrugs in, how nice and high. It could be really exaggerated. Exhale, pull down from your ears. One more biggest shrug thus far. New lower on the exhale. And now reach arms high up to the sky. So finding distance between your feet, your hands, whether you're seated or standing. And as we move laterally, lower your right arm down by your right side, a reach of your left arm up and over to the right. And I'm just looking for a stretch on the left side of your body. And if you went the other direction, it doesn't matter. Truly, we're just gonna balance out in a moment. But whether you're seated or standing, press your left foot or your left sit bone firmly into whatever it is touching, whether it's the chair or the ground. Did I go the wrong way? Was that the remark you made? No, you got it. I mean, I think I am not nearing you, Jessie, which is why it looks like we're going opposite directions. But sometimes right and left gets confusing. Let's take it back to center and reach both arms high. Let's try the other direction. Either lower your left arm down, right arm up and over to the left or opposite of whatever you did. Maybe you feel the skin stretch on the right side of your body. Nicole Belica (29:57.006) With each passing moment, maybe find just a little bit more space. And return to the middle, both arms high. Let's take a twist to the right now. Your right hand can come to your low back, left hand to your outer right hip. If you're standing, it could be an open arm variation like you have going there, Jesse. If you're in a chair, you can always bring your right hand to the back of your chair, your left hand to an arm rest or whatever it might be to help leverage this twist. And if you have no idea what you're supposed to be doing right now, you're doing great. I was going to say just in the right position, just turn your torso to the right and you got it. Take it back to center. Reach high and then let's go the other direction. Take your twist to the left. Whether it's that open arm variation, the left hand to your low back or your chair, right hand to your outer left thigh, hip or. your arm positioning on your chair, your arm, what is it called? I don't sit in chairs very often clearly. Give yourself another breath or two, rotating, twisting to the left. Nicole Belica(31:18.83) Return to center, both arms high up to the sky. Exhale, release your arms down by your sides. Let's do that. So one more time through in conjunction with your breath. Inhale, reach your arms high up to the sky. Exhale as your side bend to the right as you lower your right arm down, left arm up and over. Inhale, return to the middle or reach high. Let's go the other direction, so the left axle. Inhale back to the middle. You twist to the right, exhale. Return to center or reach high, inhale. Exhale, you twist to the left now. Take it back to center, both arms high. Exhale, relax your arms down by your sides. Just a little bit of gentle neck work. Bring your chin to your chest. Right ear towards your right shoulder. Can you allow your left shoulder to soften down away from your ear? Maybe a little shake out of your left shoulder. That might be nice too. Sometimes you don't even realize we're carrying tension. Yeah, unless you like give it a little shimmy. And then bringing your chin down towards your collarbone. Back to your chest. And then go to the other side, left ear, left shoulder. Space between your right ear and shoulder, maybe a little shimmy of your right shoulder now. Check in that even your jaw is soft and flat. Nicole Belica (33:02.83) chin comes back down towards your collarbone to bring your chin to your chest and take one or two more neck rolls moving each direction. And I encourage you right as we're practicing embodiment is you take these subtle head and neck rolls side to side if there's a particular spot that offers you maybe a little bit of extra sensation, whether it's a spot that feels really good and you want to live there a little bit longer. or maybe that area that just needs a little bit more care. So you want to pause there. You do that for yourself. And so even just this little movement that we did to tap into where our body is carrying stress, tension, right, however that shows up. And then that segues us right now, Jesse, into the breath. Your breath is so powerful and potent. And as we move the spine in all directions, right, side to side, laterally rotation, The hope is that that can free up a little bit of space for you to breathe because the bigger you can breathe, the more that helps regulate your nervous system. So whether you prefer to continue to stand or find a seat, I'm going to invite you to bring your hands to your abdomen. Using your hands as that little bit of sensory biofeedback. Lulu is making this very challenging. I can see she knows what she's doing. She's like, I know, Jesse's doing yoga. So I'm going to come hang out. So with your hands to your abdomen, see if you can breathe into your hands. Typically, when we're more in that quote unquote, stressed state, that sympathetic response, we breathe more into the chest and the shoulders. So sending your breath to your abdomen, is when you can start to shift more into that state of calm, the parasympathetic. Sometimes it's hard to breathe into the belly, especially because we're conditioned a lot to like pull in and up, right? So see if you can allow your abdomen to relax. And with each inhale, feeling your hands almost lift, expand outward from your center. And on your exhales, you send the breath out, your hands draw in back towards your spine. Maybe with each passing breath, you start to find, a little bit more of that space and outward movement with the inhale, a broadening and then drawing inward with the exhale. One more breath here. And then from your abdomen, bring your hands to your rib cage. It's almost like your index fingers are looped around the front of your ribs. The webbing between your index finger and your thumb is on the sides of your body. And then your thumb loops around the back of your rib cage. So not only filling into your abdomen, but now working with the entire circumference of your rib cage. So as you inhale your index fingers, which are in front, start to move forward, your thumbs start to move backward behind you, and that webbing between your index finger and your thumb starts to move outward. And maybe, I maybe have it. Yeah. Still working on it. Again, it's a practice, but as you start to work with this three -dimensional quality to your breath, you're truly filling the entire circumference of your rib basket. We're not necessarily looking to be in this constant state of calm either, right? Because there are moments in our life that require action, that require more of that, right? Sympathetic, more fight, flight, charge where, oh, I do need to get to this, or I do need to, you know, run from whatever might be happening. So as you work with this three -dimensional quality, you are working with both the sympathetic and the parasympathetic. so that your nervous system can respond optimally to whatever this present moment situation has to offer. Nicole Belica (37:29.966) So again, inhale you fill up front sides, back body. exhale this draw in towards your center. I notice as you breathe in this way if maybe there's clenching in your jaw or maybe the brow start to furrow a little bit. Extend yourself a little bit of compassion along the way as you might not be accustomed to breathing in this manner. But working with your breath in this way can help optimize how you kind of work with stress as opposed to resist it and eventually relax your arms down, maybe a quick shake out of your arms, a shrug of your shoulder. So I actually felt my heart like kind of start racing when I was doing that a little bit. And that's a really interesting phenomenon that can happen if you're trying something different that you don't normally do. that can create a response in your body that causes your heart rate to go up because it's not something that you're accustomed to. And you can breathe more optically to then also work with nervous system regulation and optimizing how you're managing stress in the present moment. Jessica Grossman (39:06.446) Beautiful. Thank you for the beautiful practice, Nicole. I know Lulu was invigorated by this for those who can see Lulu walking, pacing back and forth. Nicole Belica I appreciate, I was going to say, I appreciate the courage and the openness to you and everyone else that is listening to this podcast is sometimes it feels a little different, you know, a little weird, a little woo woo quote unquote is some terminology that we utilize when it comes to different yoga and embodied techniques. So thank you all for giving it a try. Jessy Grossman For sure. I'm a sucker for woo things and I also roll my eyes at them. And so it's just, it's a very confusing thing that I, that I hold space for. What invitation would you like to extend to our audience and what actions do you, are you encouraging them to take? Nicole Belica So similar to what we just did in our movement, a little recap. I think the simplest thing that you can do for yourself is if you notice that disruption in whatever task you're doing that might cause a tension in your body, stress in your body, take three to five slow rounds of breath. All right, and see if you can really breathe into your abdomen. Beyond that, maybe checking in with your feet, a few shrugs of your shoulders, a little shake out, just to give yourself a reset. before you tackle whatever task is at hand. I don't think anyone can say they're too busy for that, which is my typical experience. Nicole, where can people find you? If you are Chicago based, I teach at a few local studios in the city of Chicago, then Yoga Garage and Midtown Athletic Club. If you are not Chicago based, I've got retreats. both within the United States and internationally from Mexico to Joshua Tree to Northern Wisconsin Lake Superior and a few virtual options as well. So I think the easiest might be to just pop over to my website, which is www .nicholebelica .com. And you can find everything there. You can reach out to me there. And I truly can't wait to hear how some of these practices might come forward for you in terms of leadership and just your day -to -day lives. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you everyone for tuning in. Jessica Grossman (41:41.806) For most of my leadership coaching and consulting clients, and probably mostly myself, the aspiration is clear, embodied leadership. That deep presence that allows us to shed the weight of what ifs, changing our relationship with the stressors of life. Today, I really renewed that reminder for me of how integrated the mind, body, and emotions are, through the brain and body as a multi -directional highway, constantly communicating, influencing each other. These are the things that impact your leadership presence, and thus your impact on your team and your organization. Because after all, leadership presence isn't just about what you say, do or think. It's about being attuned and being able to show up. Jessica Grossman (42:27.022) And that's a wrap for today's episode of To Millennial. If you found yourself nodding along, you know the drill. Smash that subscribe button wherever you're tuning in. And if you want a daily dose of leadership wisdom with a sidekick of quirky parent jokes, catch me on Instagram at Coach Jessy Grossman. But hey, if you're serious about leveling up yourself, your team, head over to zlncoaching .com. where we have great tools, resources, and case studies that will help you unlock your potential and enhance your team's resilience and performance. Because here's the truth, when we don't invest time in building our own leadership skills and the skills of those around us, problems fester. We feel disconnected and it's just so hard to get work done. So if you need an executive coach, a sounding board, an offsite facilitator, a team consultant, get in touch. Thanks for hanging out with me on Two Millennial. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold, and keep growing. Jessica Grossman (43:27.662) I don't know if I've ever told you this story, Nicole, but my favorite thing once was listening to an interview at someone at a very high up in a company and they started talking. It was like, it was asking them about wellbeing and they said they got their wellbeing by spending an extra little amount of time in the bathroom in the middle of the day. Wow. That's where our society is.
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